ON THE VERGE OF GIVING UP DIET TO CONTROL PSORIASIS

[NYGuy11]

I just completed my 8th month on the Pagano regimen and I feel I am not much improved from March 2nd, the day I started.  In fact, I have more lesions today than when I first started.

To recap, I have been almost completely faithful to the Pagano diet.  I cheated only twice...I had 2 slices of pizza (with no ill effects) in August and a Tiramisu slice for my birthday last month.  Any other "cheating" has been completely minor and was usually in the form of an ingredient as part of a meal.  I experienced no flares after eating the pizza or tiramisu.  Any flares that I experienced usually popped up during a period of allergies from the environment.

I continued taking supplements derived from Barney's Formula.  I began taking probiotics and increased it to twice a day in early October.

All of my meals have been healthy...chicken, fish, vegetables, salads, etc.  I have not had my favorite foods in 8 months, such as a hamburger, coffee, chocolate chip cookie, etc.  I have not had red meat or alcohol (except for 1 shot on my birthday).

I drank green smoothies and then changed it to a vegetable drink with no fruit in it (to try to cut back my sugar intake).

I ruled out gluten as an issue.  I went gluten free for 2 months in March and April.  No change in my skin and no change once I started eating gluten again.

My diet was not horrible before I began Pagano b/c I always watched what I ate.  Even once I start eating the things I like again, I will follow the Pagano diet as much as possible just for my overall health.  I know how to treat my body with the right foods and I want to continue that way.  But when I go out to eat with friends on the weekends, I will occasionally eat foods that I enjoy.

I have also taken slippery elm in the morning 4-5 days a week and drank saffron or chamomile tea in the evening.

Despite all of this, my skin has not responded to a state where I can say it was clearing.

I want to keep going for another month b/c LittlePinkPuss has repeatedly said to give it 9 months.  However, it is difficult to keep going when you work so hard to do everything and have nothing to show for it.

I don't know what my next step will be.  I met with Dr. Pagano back in July.  He made some suggestions and changes in my diet, which yielded nothing.  I have an appointment with him on November 11.  I don't know how productive it will be, but maybe it will give me closure on the Pagano diet.

I am strongly considering acupuncture.  I found an experienced Chinese acupuncturist 10 minutes from my house.  He also has an office in Manhattan and he sounded very enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and confident over the phone.  He knew exactly what I was talking about and said he has treated people with psoriasis before.

I am not yet ready to come to the conclusion that diet is not the answer for my psoriasis, but I am approaching that point.  If I am eating healthy and not eating anything harmful or part of the Standard American Diet, is it possible that I am continuing to eat something that's an irritant for me?

If anyone has some suggestions or guidance, I would love to hear it.  I am a little bummed b/c I was very diligent in following this diet for 8 months and have nothing to show for it.

[scratchydude]

Hey NYGuy,

Have you considered going extreme and thus starting the Charles Diet+his shakes ?

It worked for me the first time. Right now, I'm back into it (it's been 1 month and a half) I haven't experienced any herxeimer reaction like in the first time, but it may be normal because even when I was drinking his daily shakes for a while I kept on eating very healthy as he advises on his diet program.

[Lazza]

Hey NYGuy,

Have you considered going extreme and thus starting the Charles Diet+his shakes ?

It worked for me the first time. Right now, I'm back into it (it's been 1 month and a half) I haven't experienced any herxeimer reaction like in the first time, but it may be normal because even when I was drinking his daily shakes for a while I kept on eating very healthy as he advises on his diet program.

Scratchy, I have a thought.  Once you are sure all the pinworm stuff is out of your system I would stop consuming so much garlic on a daily basis.  Garlic has excellent properties but it is powerful.  I consider these antimicrobial supplements to be something one takes only to perform a specific action and then discontinue, or rotate to some other supplement.  I wouldn't take garlic in quantity for more than a couple of weeks in fear that it might become counterproductive.

Oh, but if you've already stopped taking garlic then "never mind". 


_Lazza

[Lazza]

NYGuy, I would be very interested in hearing what Dr. Pagano has to say.  As you know, I am not a fan of the Pagano diet but many people claim to have gotten better from it ... and so it is hard to be critical of success.  I can imagine Pagano suggesting colon cleansing (colonics and enemas).  However I strongly recommend a more friendly approach: fermented foods.  Spend a few bucks on amazon.com and buy a yogurt maker.  Or if you have the slightest concern over dairy consumption then go with sauerkraut.  You will in effect be doing a colon cleansing by swamping your intestines with good bacteria.  Consume these foods daily for several weeks.  The amount of effort involved is trivial, the cost is probably less than that of the probiotics you are taking, and chances of negative side effects are nil.  Should this not work then I agree you need to have a long, hard think about what to do next.

As for acupuncture, I don't know much about.  I don't know how it could possibly affect psoriasis but I wouldn't dismiss it outright.  Yet it would be nice if your acupuncturist can provide references of where he/she has successfully treated someone with psoriasis.


_Lazza

[Vladex]

I just completed my 8th month on the Pagano regimen and I feel I am not much improved from March 2nd, the day I started.  In fact, I have more lesions today than when I first started.

To recap, I have been almost completely faithful to the Pagano diet.  I cheated only twice...I had 2 slices of pizza (with no ill effects) in August and a Tiramisu slice for my birthday last month.  Any other "cheating" has been completely minor and was usually in the form of an ingredient as part of a meal.  I experienced no flares after eating the pizza or tiramisu.  Any flares that I experienced usually popped up during a period of allergies from the environment.

I continued taking supplements derived from Barney's Formula.  I began taking probiotics and increased it to twice a day in early October.

All of my meals have been healthy...chicken, fish, vegetables, salads, etc.  I have not had my favorite foods in 8 months, such as a hamburger, coffee, chocolate chip cookie, etc.  I have not had red meat or alcohol (except for 1 shot on my birthday).

I drank green smoothies and then changed it to a vegetable drink with no fruit in it (to try to cut back my sugar intake).

I ruled out gluten as an issue.  I went gluten free for 2 months in March and April.  No change in my skin and no change once I started eating gluten again.

My diet was not horrible before I began Pagano b/c I always watched what I ate.  Even once I start eating the things I like again, I will follow the Pagano diet as much as possible just for my overall health.  I know how to treat my body with the right foods and I want to continue that way.  But when I go out to eat with friends on the weekends, I will occasionally eat foods that I enjoy.

I have also taken slippery elm in the morning 4-5 days a week and drank saffron or chamomile tea in the evening.

Despite all of this, my skin has not responded to a state where I can say it was clearing.

I want to keep going for another month b/c LittlePinkPuss has repeatedly said to give it 9 months.  However, it is difficult to keep going when you work so hard to do everything and have nothing to show for it.

I don't know what my next step will be.  I met with Dr. Pagano back in July.  He made some suggestions and changes in my diet, which yielded nothing.  I have an appointment with him on November 11.  I don't know how productive it will be, but maybe it will give me closure on the Pagano diet.

I am strongly considering acupuncture.  I found an experienced Chinese acupuncturist 10 minutes from my house.  He also has an office in Manhattan and he sounded very enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and confident over the phone.  He knew exactly what I was talking about and said he has treated people with psoriasis before.

I am not yet ready to come to the conclusion that diet is not the answer for my psoriasis, but I am approaching that point.  If I am eating healthy and not eating anything harmful or part of the Standard American Diet, is it possible that I am continuing to eat something that's an irritant for me?

If anyone has some suggestions or guidance, I would love to hear it.  I am a little bummed b/c I was very diligent in following this diet for 8 months and have nothing to show for it.

Chronic conditions can not be caused nor reversed by dieting. I know it's easy to blame the outside source, the food for everything and it makes money for diet gurus but in the end of the day the result is always the same and negative. The thing is when you eat bad food you just become more aware of the ill effects in the body and then it's easy to pin point at the food as the cause of it. I have found that every day fasting will reverse any ill effects of any food or diet.

[NYGuy11]

NYGuy, I would be very interested in hearing what Dr. Pagano has to say.  As you know, I am not a fan of the Pagano diet but many people claim to have gotten better from it ... and so it is hard to be critical of success.  I can imagine Pagano suggesting colon cleansing (colonics and enemas).  However I strongly recommend a more friendly approach: fermented foods.  Spend a few bucks on amazon.com and buy a yogurt maker.  Or if you have the slightest concern over dairy consumption then go with sauerkraut.  You will in effect be doing a colon cleansing by swamping your intestines with good bacteria.  Consume these foods daily for several weeks.  The amount of effort involved is trivial, the cost is probably less than that of the probiotics you are taking, and chances of negative side effects are nil.  Should this not work then I agree you need to have a long, hard think about what to do next.

As for acupuncture, I don't know much about.  I don't know how it could possibly affect psoriasis but I wouldn't dismiss it outright.  Yet it would be nice if your acupuncturist can provide references of where he/she has successfully treated someone with psoriasis.


_Lazza

Lazza, I'll give the yogurt/sauerkraut some thought.  Maybe I'll do the sauerkraut because I don't want to spend $50 on a yogurt maker.  If the yogurt experiment fails, then I'm out $50 and a machine I probably won't use much.  I do like yogurt...I eat Fagi yogurt several days out of the week.

I have no issues with dairy.  I have never eliminated dairy from my diet.  I don't know if I'm in the proper state of mind to attempt the elimination of dairy, but I really don't eat a lot of dairy.  My guilty vice with dairy is frozen yogurt.  I eat almond milk with my cereal and use skim milk when I make eggs.  I haven't had whole milk in 8 months.  I have never noticed a reaction of any kind when eating dairy.

I have never felt ill or bad when eating something.  In fact, reading about how food can affect psoriasis has ruined my psyche b/c if I eat something that might aggravate psoriasis, then I'm thinking in the back of my head about it when I shouldn't be.

I firmly believe I don't have a specific food that triggers my psoriasis.  I think for me, it's a system thing, i.e. leaky gut or thinned intestinal walls.  If unhealthy food was the cause, I think I would know by now, after 8 months of the diet.  Another thing to factor...I have never had digestive issues and I have never been overweight in my life.  I have been thin and frequently get comments from people (before Pagano) asking how I stay so thin.  I stay thin because I don't eat garbage all the time (this was true before I got psoriasis).

Maybe I'm being foolish and I should try elimination of dairy, but at this point, I think it may be a waste of time.

I still have your sauerkraut recipe, Lazza...I'm going to take a look at it and maybe on Sunday, I'll make it and get started on that.

[inspiredbythis]

NYGuy,
Just want to send good wishes to you during this period of discernment you are experiencing. I too hope you will share how your November meeting with Pagano goes.  He’s certainly had a lot of experience and may have some general insight into where you are at this point. I don’t remember how long you’ve had P, but some people say a rule of thumb is to allow a month for every year you’ve had P to see improvement.  I think in Pagano’s book 14 months is not uncommon to start seeing results and that one client took 2 years.

I've been on a diet I consider to be under the Pagano umbrella for 2 1/2 months. In addition, I eliminated dairy, gluten and any kind of doughy products and have made maybe a few other minor tweaks. (Pagano does say if you do find other foods that disagree with you by all means discontinue eating them). I have not however done any colon cleansing routines at this point.  I like Lazza's fermented sauerkraut idea and hope to incorporate that at some point in the future. 

About a month in, my elbow plaque showed marked improvement; it’s no longer raised, scaly or flaky. There's a light pinkish imprint still, but even that appears to be steadily fading. Just before my plaque began to really quiet its self down, I did experience a kind of weird eruption of little red bumps on my forearm and a strange kind of inverse patch on the inside of my elbow. These newer developments did make me wonder if it's just going one step forward to one step back, but at this time the inverse patch is hardly noticeable any more. The bumps are being more stubborn.  I feel I have some solid signs of improvement, but no guarantee.

I think the overall health benefits I've gotten by cleaning up my diet are significant. I've lost a bit of extra weight and surprisingly seem to be breathing better which I attribute to giving up dairy.  The first few weeks were the hardest and at this point I'm pretty happy continuing with the regime. I’m just taking it day by day.

I wonder if you aren’t at a temporary kind of hitting the wall place and that you might not catch a second wind of commitment towards your regime.  Regardless of whatever decision you end up making it sounds as though you have a good handle on basics of eating healthily.

All the best your way!

[Spotted Girl]

I really feel for you, I really do NYGuy ... I know how hard this is. I dont know what to suggest, but to say my thoughts are with you, and if its any consolation Im in a similar situation, although I've given up dairy and gluten too. Ive been on all manner of regimes, but this current one, about 2 months. Of course Im not seeing anything yet and dont know if I will. If thats true what they say, the 1 month for every year of the condition, I will have to wait for 28 months to see an improvement, so over 2 and a half years to see any improvement. Oh, I had acupuncture from 2 acupunturists and it didnt work. In fact my psoriasis now itches when it NEVER did before. So it actually aggravated it. The only good thing from it is that it has stopped me feeling the cold as much as I used to. See if you can tune in to UK TV and watch that episode next week of The Food Hospital. Take care and stay strong.

[Lazza]

NYGuy, as I recommended before I strongly suggest going dairy free for 90 days.  Even if you don't consume much of it you must remember that for some a tiny speck of dairy can cause a flare, or prevent plaques from going away.  There really is NO WAY of knowing for sure if you are dairy sensitive until you give it a try.  Since you say you don't consume much dairy it shouldn't be too painful to go dairy free for awhile.  ... having said all this, I now believe most psoriatics are NOT sensitive to dairy and/or gluten.  But it seems a shame not to know if you are one of the lucky third (? quarter?) that can greatly alleviate their condition with these simple dietary changes.

As was pointed out in another thread, there are at least two advantages of yogurt over sauerkraut:

1) Yogurt contains Bifodobacterium, bacteria that's good for the large intestine.  Sauerkraut does not.
2) Yogurt ferments in 24 hours, sauerkraut ferments in several days or a few weeks (depending on temperature).

Of course the main advantage of sauerkraut is that one can often prepare it readily with stuff already in your kitchen.  No special appliance is needed, although specialized fermentation crocks are nice and work well.  No starter pack (w/bacteria) is used.

However since sauerkraut has seemingly killed my IBS and my psoriasis is getting better (slow but definitive) it has hard to say if I would have a better (or worse) outcome with yogurt.

I do suggest you explore the dietary option until  you've absolutely overturned every rock, ... and you are not there yet (despite how you feel right now).  Since you will have psoriasis for the rest of your long life, hopefully with a long remission at some point .  you might as well be very thorough in the "dietary treatment for psoriasis" chapter of your life.  Hang in there.


_Lazza

[Lazza]

inspiredbythis, based on my experience it is not usual to get a new spot of psoriasis even whilst other, larger and nasty plaques are in a clearing phase.  My simple mind says whatever new spot you get has been "cooking" for awhile and it finally surfaces to bloom, then die a quick death.  You need to look at your condition in totality.  Never freak out because of a new spot.  In addition, sometimes plaques look worse, or at least strange, when they are actually getting better.

It takes a long time for the body to slowly transform from an inflamed mess into one where the immune system is calm, stable.  The frustrating part is that we are all working blind: we cannot see what has gone wrong to cause psoriasis.  This is why we experiment, and deal with disappointment far more often than we celebrate success.  (yeah, it sucks  )


_Lazza