vitamin d/ibuprofen treatment

[Eveloftus]

Thanks, BJ, for all these interesting studies, how complex selenium is! it's hard to decide how much to take. I was thinking of taking a dosage of 100 instead of 200, just in case too much is not good. And I don't want to stop selenium totally because we have lower blood levels than normal, and becasue of the studies you showed which did show a decreased skin cancer incidence, so common sense says to take some.

[bjm]

hi evy...well, here;s more to baffle...another study from JAMA

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The study ran for 10 years....participants had to have a history of BCC or SCC (basal or squamous cell carcinoma)

Half the patients received 200mcg  selenium and half a placebo...

 "At baseline, mean plasma selenium levels were low-normal (114 ng/ml). In the selenium group, they rose to 190 ng/ml within 6 to 9 months and then dropped but remained higher than in the placebo group. There was no evidence for toxic side-effects related to selenium.
Primary endpoints: There was no statistically significant difference between the two groups in the number of new skin cancers. For SCC: 218 in the selenium group vs. 190 in the placebo group. For BCC: 377 selenium vs. 350 placebo."

perhaps just as important they found "Total cancer incidence (excluding SCC/BCC) was significantly lower in the selenium group (77 vs. 119; p=0.001; RR 0.63; 95% CI for RR 0.47-0.85).

and "After adjustment for sex, smoking and age, there was a significant reduction in all cause mortality in the selenium group, RR=0.79, due to a reduction in cancer deaths."

Notice the blood levels of those on selenium are relatively the same as my calculations of the previous study where skin cancer was reduced....190ng/ml in this study while optimal serum levels in the previous study was 102-221ng/mL..in fact the baseline of this study was in that optimal level..which may suggest that the baseline of the selenium success against bcc and scc study was so low (31-78ng/ml) as to possibly skew the results and show a 60% reduction in the higher serum selenium group...

so what does this mean...to me it says 200mcg is safe, it doesn't do much for skin cancer if you've already had it...but if you have had skin cancer, it can lower the risk of other cancers by a significant margin and add to ones life span..

if you have very low levels (that baseline calculates out to 31-78ng/ml) and never had skin cancer, then supplemental selenium can reduce the risk of skin cancer and a dosage of 200mcg yields a serum level of 190ng/ml which is in the optimal range( but only when compared to the baseline If you have normal levels..then the difference between that and optimal may be negligible and you don't get that reduction

I agree evy....100mcg is a good dose and with that in a good diet totals out to near 200mcg ..I have to look for some more info...

[Eveloftus]

Hi BJ, this is a very useful study as it is prospective and double blind, placebo controlled etc.. The difference in total cancer incidence between the 2 groups is very significant (p= 0.001, it needs to be lower than 0.05 to be significant).

 I agree with your conclusion, that if you have a low selenium level to begin with (like 31-78ng/ml as in the other study, much lower than in this study, and maybe that's why they didn't find a difference in skin cancer incidence in this study, as you said, the baseline was not so low) and haven't had skin cancer it is worth raising it by taking a supplement to get a reduction in skin cancer incidence, and a reduction in other cancers presumably, but if your selenium level is already optimal (around 190) like you said, you don't get that reduction. If your level is low normal it is still useful to increase it to get a reduction of other cancer incidence.

Still a bit confusing to try to come to a definite conclusion from all those different studies.

I am curious now to get a selenium blood level...

[Eveloftus]

Hi again, BJ, now that I am clear, I was wondering whether I could decrease the ibu, like take it every 2 or 3 days? Have you ever done that, and did your p worsen?

 I will not decrease the peppermint though, as I believe it is essential.

[bjm]

hi evy...i..by accident..or absent mindedness i have forgotten the ibu.......i think it depends on inflammation..if you are doing good, in remission, one may not need it or less ibuprofen . In the beginning or in the midst  of the inflammation,  it's  like trying to stop a train..and we need it

so i agree with you...something to try as we want the least to do the job..I know what you are thinking...

"do i want to fool with this when its working?"...well, its the only way to know..fortunately since the ibu has such a short time in the body..a reduction in the ibu if pertinent should show up quickly....i do remember that one of the points of ibu was that it effected tcell migration possible making them more vulnerable to the nbuvb or uvb ..i'll look for it ..it's been years..

Art ..that was a very interesting article  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   and certainly something to consider...the peppermint caraway combo .. and something evy might be interested in as she was mentioning the probiotic route..

[farang]

Hi, BJ

Your advice has helped me, and I improved a lot from having guttate ps to being almost clear.  Now, plaque ps has started to grow on my legs and even spread to other parts.  Don't know why it's getting worse...Seems it's getting resistant to the treatment.  Is it possible?

I am taking 2000 D3, 2 x fish oil, 1oo mcg selenium, 1 ibu, folic, B12.

Do you have any suggestion what I should add/increase to fight the spread? 
Thanks a lot 

[Eveloftus]

Art, BJ, yes that's an interesting article, worth a try, don't know how to go about ingesting them, maybe a tea, like Lavender or crushed caraway infusion, although we must remember this was an in vitro experiment not on actual humans. Something to keep in mind.

[bjm]

Seems it's getting resistant to the treatment.  Is it possible?

I am taking 2000 D3, 2 x fish oil, 1oo mcg selenium, 1 ibu, folic, B12.
Do you have any suggestion what I should add/increase to fight the spread?  

Hi farang....well, i think its we who change..and our response, a software change in our genes, some infection or changes in the small intestine ..and at least in my case, this disease is often progressive i think for those reasons

I see you omitted the enteric coated peppermint oil...are you taking that?..
Its a big help as i think once all obvious signs of inflammation are taken care of...the condition of our small intestine and the inflammation that comes from it, changes in how we react to some foods.. kicks in the p and this is significant...and often subtle...i would not have noticed if i did not intentionally stop the peppermint, going on a very high lectin diet for a couple of weeks and watch the redness reappear...

With the D,, even at 2000iu, your levels are slightly dropping daily,,,the problem now is that increasing the D will help reduce the flakes but increase the redness..so with spring so close i would keep it at 2000iu and take the peppermint before meals...and get some spring sun..or light treatment...that peppermint can shine with some light,,,and when D is made that way..we don't get the increased redness....Also, i would change diet a bit...cut out the lectins for a couple of weeks..and if you have a high lectin diet...bread, tomato sauce, beans potatoes.. etc...then take 100-200mg enteric coated peppermint before..it helps the gut...which takes about a couple of weeks to heal up as these cells grow fast..and once we have a better envioronment, we can cheat more without a response..and the p...

its like we are running up a sandpile. and it keeps giving way..a flare here, a spot there.....but once we get on top..we can take it a little easier...like evy can now do...

hope some if these ideas help bj

[bjm]

HI billmp....

1)yes, In theory, the vitamin A can compete with the vitamin D at the VDR or vitamin D receptor level.. as well as that much 10,000 A has shown to increase hip fracture but not when its beta carotene..i don't know how that effects this vitamin A/D competion...so less may be better...i would take half that pill.. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

2)...the peppermint should increase bile flow which should inhance the D absorption..i don't know how much D you are taking  or latitude and this time of year we are getting near the bottom..D is a funny, too much as a supplement is not good, (for us) and too little is also not good..i found  generally more D = more redness, less D = more flaking.there is a sweet spot probably slightly different for each individual....i have found  some sun or light is more effective then a supplement but we use what you can especially over winter.

3) cholecalciferol (Vitamin D) from fish liver oil is fine as long as on the back of the bottle it doesn't also say vitamin A.  Cholecalciferol is the D 3 or D usually in the softgel or hard tablet...sometimes they manufacture  it from fish liver but most often by irradiating  lanolin from wool. Chemically they are the same as long as the one from fish liver oil doesn't include vitamin A

I would check the diet..eliminating gluten, some of the high lectin foods, perhaps dairy for some...much as i suggested to farang, and get some light if possible ..i know thats not often easy...also i would increase the dose of peppermint if you are only taking the one 50mg especially when eating a high lectin meal...

hi Psucks.....well some can get a quicker response, but for me this time of year it took about a month to 6 weeks..and i started getting some early spring sun..flakes started getting finer..

i hope this helps...bj


HI evy....once you get some UVA. those brown spots will disappear but they may darken first....its just that the nbuvb or uvb doesn't penetrate deep enough to get those skin layers reshuffled..and the melanocytes equally migrated...some morning or afternoon sun might do it...

some niacinamide  or glucosamine in a lotion base might help....not that you are an aging senior like me 
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[Eveloftus]

oh thanks bj, the sun should help, yeah it's just with the short UVB, I didn't have that with PUVA (the whole skin became tanned).

niacinamide? in a lotion? how come and where would i get that?