vitamin d/ibuprofen treatment

[Rob73]

If one were to make a Vitamin D3 ointment using a 100mg tub of vaseline for example, how many units of D3 do you think one would have to add to the vaseline?

I'm thinking of cutting open some softgels and either smearing the raw gel onto my elbows or heating up some vaseline and mixing in some D3.

Anyone tried this before?

[Rob73]

What are we to make of reports of ibuprofen making psoriasis worse?  Doesn't this contra-indicate BJ's beleive that ibuprofren should help psoriasis?

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[artworks4]

Hi Rob,
I tried topical vitamin d quite awhile back but did not notice any change either positive or negative.

I've been taking ibuprofen for years and never noticed a worsening of my p that I could say was caused by ibuprofen. I've even applied it topically to plaques with no noticeable change. If you do a Pubmed search under ibuprofen and psoriasis, only 14 results come up. Of those 14 only two or three are actually about ibuprofen and psoriasis. The two that I looked at were individual cases as opposed to an actual study involving the testing of ibuprofen on people with psoriasis. Almost every drug on the market will have cases of adverse events. To me, the fact that there are only those three on Pubmed, and considering the fact that ibuprofen has to be one ot the most used drugs in the world, I would say that those were just fairly rare incidents of adverse reaction related to patients who happen to have psoriasis. Also too, I think you have to consider the dose that bj is suggesting, is very low and well below a standard daily dose.

I can't remeber anyone on this board mentioning that type of reaction. I think people have mentioned that they could not take ibuprofen for one reason or another, but I don't think it was because it worsened their psoriasis. If anyone has mentioned it here, I missed it.

Hi bj, I'm thinking about my choices.
I did get some sun yesterday because it was sunny and warm and my shadow of the right length and when I checked myself in the evening I could see that I had tanned very slightly. This afternoon I checked again and what I noticed was a bit disappointing. Areas where I had plaques on my torso that had faded away to the point where I could not see them anymore, tanned just a bit darker than the surrounding area and consequently I can now see the outline of where the old plaques were. No redness at all, no itching, just slightly darker and just enough where you can see exactly where and how big the old plaques were.......as I said, disappointing.

Art

[Chappers_27]

Hi All

Bit of an update. I am getting my Vit D test soon (which will be interesting). I've been taking Vit D at about 3,000 iu per day for about a week (not the ibuprofen). First thing I noticed was softer, more supple skin. Previously my skin felt 'tight' all over. One week and two days later I am suffering from a viral infection, according to the doctor. It feels like I am fighting a virus. My skin feels warm to the touch and feels like I have been out in the sun too long. Feel lightheaded and dizzy. But skin feels different. Lesions are becoming pinker and more 'smooth'. Its very strange. I feel like c**p and have stopped the Vit D today. I think I am either hypersensitive to Vit D or I was soooo low on Vit D that my body has gone "what the hell is this stuff?".

Anyway, to be sure I am visiting the GP today to be sure - that I dont have some other virus. Who knows, I could have been harbouring a virus all this time, which was causing the psoriasis, and now, finally the cathelicidin is being regulated??

Thanks

(interesting article below)

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Antimicrobial peptides and the skin immune defense system.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Schauber J, Gallo RL.
Department of Dermatology and Allergology, Ludwig-Maximilians-University, Munich, Germany.

Our skin is constantly challenged by microbes but is rarely infected. Cutaneous production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs) is a primary system for protection, and expression of some AMPs further increases in response to microbial invasion. Cathelicidins are unique AMPs that protect the skin through 2 distinct pathways: (1) direct antimicrobial activity and (2) initiation of a host response resulting in cytokine release, inflammation, angiogenesis, and reepithelialization. Cathelicidin dysfunction emerges as a central factor in the pathogenesis of several cutaneous diseases, including atopic dermatitis, in which cathelicidin is suppressed; rosacea, in which cathelicidin peptides are abnormally processed to forms that induce inflammation; and psoriasis, in which cathelicidin peptide converts self-DNA to a potent stimulus in an autoinflammatory cascade. Recent work identified vitamin D3 as a major factor involved in the regulation of cathelicidin. Therapies targeting control of cathelicidin and other AMPs might provide new approaches in the management of infectious and inflammatory skin diseases.

J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2008 Aug;122(2):261-6.

[bjm]

Hi Art...so if i understand you...where the lesions were,,,are now tanning sooner or darker and against the lighter background of normal skin ,,,they now stand out?

do you think this could be due to your high D levels?...is it possible to just use sunscreen over them until the color equalizes with the surrounding skin?  I have noticed near old lesions i would often get a peppering of tanned spots..like dark freckles.. as if there is some disrupt or interference on how the melanocytes rise to the surface..

i do notice that  with a reduction in D, and lesions will turn from red to  a dusty, whitish scaling  ..but this responds better to light,..getting finer and breaking up...specifically, the depth(you can feel it) of the inflammation is less and appears as a dusty white scale...but this is a positive sign,,although visually in the short term can be more obvious..easily covered with baby or coconut oil

so what are you plans to counteract this effect of darkening..wait til the d levels drop?..sunscreen on the darker areas?....maybe less uva and more uvb?....some niacinomide lotion on the spots?..

good luck....bj

[bjm]

hi chappers,,ya that the ll37 peptide i'm always yakking about...we have a little more then normal..interesting article... as far as the previous discussion in the forum link..one only has to look at the disparity in cancer levels to see the effects of latitude and sunlight to see the effects of adequate D. There are maps of lung, colon ovarian, breast cancer distributions by latitude...the impact of adequate D over a lifetime is obvious...

from the literature, its unusual to have a reaction to D as you would easily make that much in the summer sun in a half hour...in july up to 1000iu/min..but its not unheard of...some few can't take it..or get sun either..my sister being in that group

it will be interesting what those levels are...my guess its a bug but i would start slower anyway..

bj

[Eveloftus]

Hi guys, below is a paragraph from Dr Cannell's most recent newsletter, on why he recommends a blood level of at least 50ng/ml, I thought you might be interested:

"Professor Robert Heaney of Creighton University just discovered that if you take 2,200 IU of vitamin D every day, you only have about 12 days supply of vitamin D in your body.
 
I love Robert Heaney’s papers. In a previous paper, Dr. Heaney discovered that at blood levels of 35 ng/ml, 50% of people are using up their vitamin D as quickly as they take it, that is, they are not storing any for future use and suffer from chronic substrate starvation. Obviously, one wants to take enough so the body has all it can use, which is why I recommend 25(OH)D levels of at least 50 ng/ml. At that level, no one should have chronic substrate starvation.
 
In the paper below, Dr. Heaney collaborated with two other Creighton scientists, Dr. Diane Cullen and Dr. Laura Armas, as well as one of the premier experts in measuring vitamin D in the world, Dr. Ron Horst of Heartland Assays. Ron runs tens of thousands of vitamin D samples a year as Heartland Assays performs vitamin D testing for most of the big studies and Dr. Horst is one of the few people in the world who can accurately measure cholecalciferol, and not just 25(OH)D."
 
You are not allowed to view links. Register or LoginHeaney RP, Horst RL, Cullen DM, Armas LA. Vitamin D3 distribution and status in the body. J Am Coll Nutr. 2009 Jun;28(3):252-6.
 

[artworks4]

Hi Art...so if i understand you...where the lesions were,,,are now tanning sooner or darker and against the lighter background of normal skin ,,,they now stand out?

do you think this could be due to your high D levels?...is it possible to just use sunscreen over them until the color equalizes with the surrounding skin?  I have noticed near old lesions i would often get a peppering of tanned spots..like dark freckles.. as if there is some disrupt or interference on how the melanocytes rise to the surface..

i do notice that  with a reduction in D, and lesions will turn from red to  a dusty, whitish scaling  ..but this responds better to light,..getting finer and breaking up...specifically, the depth(you can feel it) of the inflammation is less and appears as a dusty white scale...but this is a positive sign,,although visually in the short term can be more obvious..easily covered with baby or coconut oil

so what are you plans to counteract this effect of darkening..wait til the d levels drop?..sunscreen on the darker areas?....maybe less uva and more uvb?....some niacinomide lotion on the spots?..

good luck....bj

Hi bj,

I have always gotten these post inflammatory hyperpigmentation spots in the past, even when I wasn't supplementing with d, the thing is, my psoriasis was just never that bad before and never covered as much of my body as it did when it got really bad. It was mainly confined to my scalp and a few small spots on my ankles or legs that I could eliminate with just a steroid ointment. So any spots that I did get, weren't very big or noticeable and consequently not bad to live with once they healed and then hyperpigmented. I had never had any really large plaques until relatively recently so I never really gave any thought to how to deal with a large hyperpigmentation area or how it might look. Basically once my p got worse and really started to spread, it stayed that way for quite awhile until I used the combination of the full BF and steroid ointment. Now that I am 90 to 95% clear, I am realizing that if I go in the sun all of those previous plaque areas that were no longer visible are most likely going to reappear as hyperpigmented areas.
I had given thought to using sun block on those areas as I had mentioned to Eve in a previous post, however, for me there are too many areas to cover and some of them are not visible yet as I only got sun on one day so far. It is a bit of a dilema. My thinking is to always wear a shirt and possibly try a #50 SPF uva/uvb sunblock that I have on the spots on my ankles and legs in the hope of eventually being able to wear shorts again. In my experience, these hyperpigmented spots will go away on their own, but it takes about two years or more.
The creams I am using are either excruciatingly slow or they are not working. I think I'll have to do more research in this area. I know the stuff the dermatologist prescribes has some pretty significant side effects, so I don't think I'll be going that route. This p stuff can really throw some curve balls.

Art

[bjm]

A little about vitamin C, it may help more then simply reducing uric acid levels which is why i take it...

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it may have an effect on angiogenesis..one of the byproducts of the ll37 peptide

and also vitamin D and recent discoveries in MS  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

and i fixed the link on evy's post on vitamin D distribution in the body

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[artworks4]

This was a very nice way of letting them know that their vitamin d and cancer  study was essentially inaccurate, outdated and just plain wrong! 

Art

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