vitamin d/ibuprofen treatment

[OrbitaL]

Nope nothing else, I have gone gluten free also.

[artworks4]

Hi bj,

I have a question regarding vitamin d intake and body fat
I have read several studies that have basically said that people with higher body fat content show lower 25 (OH) d status even when supplementing with relatively high vitamin d intake. The proposed reason for this phenomenon was that the excess fat cells sequester 25 (OH) d and don't allow it into the general circulation as would normally occur in a person with lower body fat if I remember correctly. If that is correct, would a person with high body fat content need to take significantly more vitamin d when on BF?
Also , I was wondering if a magnesium deficiency can manifest as a lower 25 (OH) d level than what would normally be expected for a given dose of vitamin d?
Lastly, I know that age can play a factor in how well your body is able to convert uv rays into vitamin d in the skin, but does age also affect absorption of oral vitamin d?

Thank You.

Art

[AnitaG]

I remember I started this regime about a year ago and in the first few weeks it did get worse and therefore I stopped.  I am now trying it again, and the itching is annoying but I am going to give it a little longer because there are too many people on here who are saying it has helped them, so it is worth a shot for me.

I found the itching horrendous and the more vit d i took the worse it got and it took around 6 months for it to go.. i found that splitting up the dosage of vit d throughout the day helped calm it a bit and extra ibu when it got really bad.  But stick in there cos it does go in the end.. i think its to do with the vit d levels increasing cos the sun used to make me itch really badly too.

Hmm wonder is it a bad thing that I am not itching then? I never do seem to itch though, maybe if that starts happening it is working.

I started this regime on 1000iu vit d then increased it to 2000ui after a couple of weeks, maybe you need to increase your dosage  how much sun do you get?  For redness, increasing your ibu for a week or 2 will help that.

[bjm]

hi orbital...i think its a coincidence that the P is worse but that would be hard to convince to you because of the timing...and theres always the chance the increase in D increases the ll37 cytokine which may offter dna bits to dentritic cells  making more tcells. Normally i think when one tries this they are already getting worse and so figure to give it a try...but i don't think the small bit of D and one ibu should do it..

a few options that i can see ...although i have never had facial p...i can gather its a real pain and you want some changes now...not in a month

stop the D and ibu and see what happens over  a week or two..it'll either confirm your fears or suggest there is some other instigator of your increased P..i think the latter and its in the GI tract as you said you had some GI problems..The D and ibu  simply can not alone dominate  the other causes of inflammation.

i would get some protopic or other topical suggestions from others that use them..and see if that helps...

or i would reduce the D to half of what you are taking, skip or take the ibu...double up a bit for a few days as anitaG suggests and see if one or another helps...

and/or, get to a tanning booth, get some uvb or sun...even fall sun

if it were me, young etc and imperative to get this controlled ..i would do the tanning booth, just a bit, not for the tan  2xweek, 1000iu of D, a multi, one ibu and some protopic and start some daily yogurt (2 cups)

(we pm'd about this and lactose intolerance may be an issue as well/or GI inflammation which has increased..if lactose intollerance is accurate then the commercial yogurt is out...and a probiotic pill may be in order instead..
 altering diet too drastically may be involved and might have to revert back to a meat and potatoes/fish and chips menu to get things straight slowly)

heres the way i understand it...the tcells that are in play now have to either be destroyed by light..uvb, nbuvb etc or just have to play out their life span which is weeks to die off......but some of them, the memory tcells can live months that is if left to die out on their own pace with no reinforceing stimulus but they are like a wrestling tag team ..if there is any new stimulus,,,infection, inflammation etc..and they tag off and reactivate new tcells ...

This is why light is so effective as it can destroy tcells and memmory tcells in a short time..days to weeks..again thats considering that any reinforcement stimulus isn't added to the picture..such as infection or other inflammation...ie  the gut, etc which could slow or alter those results...and why nbuvb or uvb might quit helping.......kind of a rising tide lifts all boats..increased inflammation in one area and it kicks up a host of inflammatory signals that increases inflammation and P elseware.

i think  adequate D lowers the production of the tcells via dentritic cells ..but this takes time. Once adult tcells are in play..we just have to wait them out or get some light to destroy them (or drugs to interfere with them)... and look to try and eliminate other inflammation that will keep them in play...i could be entirely wrong about this but that's how appears to me..

some get the itch ...and others who have seen improvement claimed no itch...i itched terribly 6 years ago for about a week..and not once since...so i don't know what its about...AnitaG suggests splitting D dosage can bring some relief so thats what i would try first when there is itching

hope this helps...bj

[bjm]

The strain we must avoid in our SCD™ yoghurt is Bifidus as it has been found to cause bacterial overgrowth in the gut. Bifidus comes in quite a few variations e.g. Bifidobacterium infantis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Lactobacillus Bifidus, Bifidobacterium longum etc, in general avoid anything that has bifid in its name."

Any thoughts on these strains BJ?

Ben

hi ben...i don't know as my yoplait plus starter includes Bifidobacterium lactis Bb-12 and make about a half gallon a week..
 What you suggest  may be accurate as about a month ago..while on the homemade yogurt  with some other starter, i forget which, and the rest of the regimen, i developed a thrush (yeast)infection on my tongue w after attempting to consume a gallon of ice cream in record time  ...lowering sugar intake and it was gone in a day...so something to consider..less sugar!
I have tried a few brands now and the two basic microbes are in all Lactobacillus bulgaricus and Streptococcus thermophilus...i think its the L bulgarius that is a big help to us..as i could see a change in gluten tolerance in a week ...but experimenting may have merit..
bj

[hshah]

So much for avoiding immune responses... I got my tooth infection sorted and now just got stung by a wasp

[BJC]

Hey BJ.
Thanks for that. If changing the starter was the cause of the thrush, it's interesting how quickly it came about then departed again. Did you notice any difference in you skin during the infection?

I've been getting some awesome thick set yogurt from using "Rachels Organic Greek yogurt" as a starter and full fat organic milk. This also has Bifidobacterium. I think I'll continue experimenting, maybe try Sheep or goats milk starters/milk. Any opinions on none cow dairy?


On a different note, Anita I see how you recommend splitting the D dosage up? I'm not itching but as suggested I'm lowering the D from 5000 a day to 1000-2000 in hopes to improve the clearing. I read that its fine to take your weekly dosage of vit D in one go (because its fat soluble I think), any thoughts on this or known benefits of taking smaller doses more frequently? I have a tub of 5000iu capsules left so I have been taking 1 every 4 or 5 days.


Orbital I also have some face P, it's damn frustrating hey. With me it's the slowest area to respond as well. All we have is faith and keep our minds on the end result, I've been taking this seriously for about 5 weeks now and seeing improvements.

BJ, I see you suggested a tanning booth 2 x week. Do you think there is still benefit from this if you are above your vit D sweet spot due to excessive supplementation?

Ben

[AnitaG]

Hey BJ.
Thanks for that. If changing the starter was the cause of the thrush, it's interesting how quickly it came about then departed again. Did you notice any difference in you skin during the infection?

I've been getting some awesome thick set yogurt from using "Rachels Organic Greek yogurt" as a starter and full fat organic milk. This also has Bifidobacterium. I think I'll continue experimenting, maybe try Sheep or goats milk starters/milk. Any opinions on none cow dairy?


On a different note, Anita I see how you recommend splitting the D dosage up? I'm not itching but as suggested I'm lowering the D from 5000 a day to 1000-2000 in hopes to improve the clearing. I read that its fine to take your weekly dosage of vit D in one go (because its fat soluble I think), any thoughts on this or known benefits of taking smaller doses more frequently? I have a tub of 5000iu capsules left so I have been taking 1 every 4 or 5 days.


Orbital I also have some face P, it's damn frustrating hey. With me it's the slowest area to respond as well. All we have is faith and keep our minds on the end result, I've been taking this seriously for about 5 weeks now and seeing improvements.

BJ, I see you suggested a tanning booth 2 x week. Do you think there is still benefit from this if you are above your vit D sweet spot due to excessive supplementation?

Ben

Its fine to take your vit D all in one.. I just found taking big doses at once caused the itch from hell  and taking more smaller doses alleviated it a bit.. As BJ says some dont itch at all, some for  a small period of time, some for longer.. my skin did itch badly if i went in the sun even before i started this so i think it tends to be the ones who would itch anyway who get it worse..

So if you're not itching theres no need to split up the dosage but if you are itching its well worth trying.  Thats the only benefit I know of

[bjm]

Hey BJ.
Thanks for that. If changing the starter was the cause of the thrush, it's interesting how quickly it came about then departed again. Did you notice any difference in you skin during the infection?

i think it created a microbial window of opportunity and my overindulgence in sugar and lactose (ice cream) resulted in the thrush(yeast) gone in a day and no skin change

BJ, I see you suggested a tanning booth 2 x week. Do you think there is still benefit from this if you are above your vit D sweet spot due to excessive supplementation?

i think it can really help...jump start things in a sense, reshuffle the skin cards...i have seen others clear on it and some measure of the formula....the light, even UVA,  does other things the D doesn't do.

bj

[bjm]

I have read several studies that have basically said that people with higher body fat content show lower 25 (OH) d status even when supplementing with relatively high vitamin d intake. The proposed reason for this phenomenon was that the excess fat cells sequester 25 (OH) d and don't allow it into the general circulation as would normally occur in a person with lower body fat if I remember correctly. If that is correct, would a person with high body fat content need to take significantly more vitamin d when on BF?

hi Art, i am somewhat familiar of obesity resulting in lower tested D levels for the same dosage..which makes sense as a larger body has more lipid (fat) storage capacity and i think it works like saline solution in a swimming pool..the larger the pool the lower the salinity. I remember reading that after being absorbed into fat lipids, as blood levels drop,  it's slower in coming out of storage which also makes sense in long term survival..as we can get by with very little..ie, prisons, convents, and asylums...although not healthy. I also recall one study on obese Hawaiians with low D levels even with sun..but that may be unrelated 

As you know we slightly differ on dosage..i think for many of us with p, from supplement alone, optimum is around 1000-2000iu maybe 3000iu of D in the winter then that considered for anti cancer, etc 4000-5000iu ...i believe its due to this ll37 cytokine which some of us have an abundance of...and which can increase with too much d resulting in increased redness. so i think its fairly individual..it seems to me, too much D yields more redness, less D...more whitish dustings but less redness so D seems to exert control on skin turnover, but too much adds to redness at some trigger point by  increasing this ll37 inflammatory cytokine You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login 

and TH17 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
perhaps a protein CCR6.. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login at least thats my grasp of it

Also , I was wondering if a magnesium deficiency can manifest as a lower 25 (OH) d level than what would normally be expected for a given dose of vitamin d?
Lastly, I know that age can play a factor in how well your body is able to convert uv rays into vitamin d in the skin, but does age also affect absorption of oral vitamin d?

 i think magnesium is pretty common if we eat a normal diet, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

oatmeal which is a morning staple for me is full of it..as are many foods..so i don't those who eat well are low and in addition, the formula includes a multivitamin precisely to fill the gaps in some small way.
I don't know how low magnesium interferes with D..perhaps in absorption... As we age its commonly accepted there is a deterioration in the GI tract, bile production etc.. the segmented(SFB) bacteria we have talked about producing th17(and why we try the yogurt), there probably is lower absorption as we age...

bj