Dismissed for having pa !

[delboy20]

Hi all,

For those of you that have followed my story here is the latest episode.

The woman at the CAB seemed quite shocked at my treatment and advised me to phone ACAS when I get my dismissal letter. It came today but more on that later.
She also advised me to claim DLA and gave me an enormous form to fill out.

At my dismissal on Monday I specifically asked them to state the grounds of dismissal. They said on the grounds of ill health.
The letter came today and it states "we confirm you have been dismissed on the grounds of capability" Can they do this ? Can they change the reason or is it the same thing ? I have had no verbal or written warnings and have still had no minutes of any meetings or signed anything at all. They seem to be making it up as they go along !!

I have the right to appeal but as the appeal is with the father of one the directors who dismissed me I wouldn't hold out much hope !!

Any views or advice is welcomed.

And to cap it all I have visited my rheumy today but that will be in another post.

And i have to go to the job centre tomorrow - it just gets better.

Cheers,

Del.

[david_8]

hi, Del

you have the CAB/Acas adviser's now follow there recommendations

go to  the appeal    you dont have to say or sign anythink , as before take a witness
ask for Minuit's to be taken and copies sent
unless its what you want to hear, dont rush it time is on your side and interest rates

keep notes or recording of phone calls times/dates names etc  and keep  originals letters safe  and only give/send out copies

i have made/kept secret tape recordings of  redundancy meetings but  did not have to use them
once the manager's knew i had them,  they where kittens and reinstated there promises and paid up + nice big bonus


? as prev asked are there more than 15 employees

and  did/have you signed a new contract of work , IE change  of duties/work place
? are you more qualified than the other workers

have they changed directors of late or company name etc
you can check them out at company house etc

let  us know how it works  out  hope the dla claim goes smoothly


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Gareth125]

I had the same thing happen to me . They can dismiss you on grounds of capability , but only if they have a doctors report stating that you will be unfit to carry out your role for the "forseeable future" , the words in quotes must be used . They have to demonstrate that they have sought to re deploy you in a different role . If no suitable posts exist they can terminate your contract on grounds of capability .

[Mrs Aginoth]

Put in the appeal - it looks better when you take them to tribunal and walk away with £thousends

Get the CAB to help you fill out the DLA form, they usually make an appt to do this as it takes a while.

Ill health led to you incapability to do the picking job, so they are using them interchangeably.  It's not very relevent in this case as it certainly seems you were both unfairly and wrongfully dismissed,  They were able to redeply you as they already had done so, and you were capable of doing the job as defined in your contract.  They can try claiming that "common practise" meant that you were a picker only, but if the other drivers had the same contracted title as you, the tribunal will probably take a dim view of that.

[delboy20]

I need to ask a couple of things, i have no idea about legal matters !!

If I claim unfair dismissal at a tribunal will it cost me loads of money ?

Will I need to hire a solicitor ??

ACAS. What exactly do they do ?

Is it all over the phone or do I see them in person ??

Do they represent me if it goes to tribunal ??

Any advice will help me out !!

Cheers,

Del.

[babyblue]

Delboy

Just been on the net to try to get answers to your various questions ... the parts highlighted below are relevant

ACAS  Acas stands for Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service. They aim to improve organisations and working life through better employment relations. They help with employment relations by supplying up-to-date information, independent advice and high quality training, and working with employers and employees to solve problems and improve performance.

Whether you're an employer or an employee you can get free advice from this website or by calling our telephone helpline. Employers might also be interested in our more specialised services, including training, workplace projects, conciliation and mediation.
(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

Employees have the right not to be unfairly dismissed. In most circumstances you must have at least one year's continuous service before you can make a complaint to an employment tribunal. However, there is no length of service requirement in relation to 'automatically unfair grounds'. Also, the requirement is reduced to one month if you claim to have been dismissed on medical grounds as a consequence of certain health and safety requirements that should have led to suspension with pay rather than to dismissal.

A complaint of unfair dismissal must be received by an employment tribunal within three months of the effective date of termination of the employment (usually the date of leaving the job) unless the tribunal considers this was not reasonably practicable. Time limits may also be extended where statutory procedures apply - subject to certain conditions.

If both you and your employer agree, instead of going to an employment tribunal, the case may be heard by an arbitrator under the Acas Arbitration Scheme. If a tribunal establishes that a dismissal has taken place it is normally for your employer to show that it was for a fair reason and that they have, as a minimum, followed the statutory disciplinary procedures. In such cases the tribunal must then decide whether, in the circumstances, your employer acted reasonably in treating that reason as sufficient for dismissal.


Do I Need to go to an Employment Tribunal and Will it Cost me?
There is no cost for making a claim at a tribunal unless you employ the services of a solicitor who will require payment.
(You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

What Happens at The Hearing?
The tribunal will let you know the date of the hearing. You do not have to appear in person but you must tell the tribunal if you want the hearing to take place in your absence.

In preparation, remember to take all documentation with you to the hearing in support of your claim and arrange it into date order to enable you to describe the series of events which led up to your claim in the order in which they occurred. If you're going to use any documents, you must tell the other side (your employer or their representatives) and give them 7 days' notice that you intend to do this.

At the hearing, you (or your representatives) and your employer both put your cases to the panel and answer questions. The panel then comes to a decision.

If you attend the hearing on your own, the panel will try to make things as clear and simple for you to understand as possible. The procedures are quite informal. Unlike other courts, tribunals don't normally order any side to pay costs unless they decide you or your employer acted unreasonably in bringing the case or if any representatives at the hearing behaved unreasonably.


If You Win
The tribunal can order your employer to pay compensation costs which is unlimited for discrimination or dismissal on health and safety grounds.

However, it's important to remember that a successful claim is not to punish the employer but to provide you with compensation for the loss of earnings for the time you have been off work.
(all above from Tribunal Website, as indicated above).

Hope this helps... wishing you well
Hugs
BB

[Pen30]

Hi Del,

I have a friend who is currently going through the tribunal process at the moment.
Acas and the CAB did help him with this. Your claim will be looked at before going to the tribunal, and if it is felt that you have no claim it will not even get as far as the tribunal, this is to free up the process and also save you money trying to claim if there is no chance of winning.
It will not cost you anything to put the case to a tribunal and ACAS helped my mate by being the cotact between him and the employer my mate decided to represent himself, however I would advise you to get a lawyer. The reason being, it is and can be very complicated and not knowing the law puts you at a disadvantage as your ex employer will have a legal team, and they will run rings around you if you don't know what your doing. This also happen with my mate, until he got himself a lawyer.
It will cost money to get the lawyer, but you will have more of a chance, also your lawyer maybe able to get the company to settle out of court, again most companies will do this if your case is strong, but they will wait until the very last minute, as they will be hoping that you will not go through with it.

Hope this helps a little
Take care
Pen

[Midge]

Hi Del, I'm not sure which bits of my own knowledge I can add that haven't already been said - the DLA form is a long one, it's  bit like trying to read The Beano, only there aren't many giggles in it.

The only advice I'd be able to give you about DLA is to answer the questions based on your worst day, rather than an average day.

There's a bit which asks you how many days of seven you feel that bad - I've always done my own DLA claim and never had any problems with it, although I know some people on here have had some difficulties.

I still can't believe your employers have dismissed you - it's good that the CAB and ACAS are helping you out though.

All the best
  

[delboy20]

Hi all,

Latest update - I have phoned acas and they have put me in touch with the "Disability Law Service" . One of their legal advisors is ringing me next week. Has anybody had any dealings with them ?? All I know is they are a charitable organisation who offer advice to disabled people.
The guy from acas advised me to get a lawyer if I go for unfair dismissal but I haven't decided yet.
My appeal letter is written out and ready to go. Now for a stupid question - If they, by some miracle, agree they were wrong and change the decision on appeal do I have to take my job back ?? The thing is I don't think I want to work there any more after all this !

Cheers,

Del.

[babyblue]

Delboy

I think it's perhaps a good idea to have independent legal advice from a firm who deal with Employment Law / Disability, etc.  I've found some further details online at Thompsons Law Firm who specialise in this - (see  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.)  Their website says :-

With effect from 6 April 2009, the time limit for lodging a claim for unfair dismissal at the Employment Tribunal is 3 months less one day from the effective date of termination of the contract of employment.

What remedies are available?
If a Tribunal finds in favour of the employee it can order:

Reinstatement - getting their job back with no loss of money or security. However, Tribunals rarely order reinstatement
• Engagement - getting another job with the same employer
• Compensation - a basic award calculated in a similar way to a redundancy plus a compensatory award to compensate the employee for the financial losses incurred as a result of the dismissal

The maximum compensation award is currently £66,200.00 (and updated every year), but unless the employee is a very high earner, it is rare for Tribunals to award this amount. Most will award for loss of earnings to the date of hearing plus a limited amount to compensate for future loss.

Because reinstatement is mentioned as one of the objectives it appears that in the unlikely event  your Company decide to reinstate you tomorrow morning,  then obviously you have no case for unfair dismissal. However, you may have a case for harassment in the workplace.  (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)
I would run this past your Solicitor as I understand perfectly you DO NOT wish to work for this Company  given the manner in which they have treated you to date.  Ultimately they are the best person to advice, are completely independent and will be able to give you an idea of the outcome as they will have presumably dealt with similar cases in the past.

Try not to worry as its an obvious case of discrimination I feel.   Jot down a few questions to ask the legal advisor from DLS when he/she calls you next week.  And read up online in both DLS website You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login so that you're learning a little about what lies ahead... to be forewarned is to be forearmed after all.

Wishing you well,
Hugs
BB